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Questions and Answers about Recovery

Question: Experts often say that there is no cure for “schizophrenia”  (or similar disorders such as “schizoaffective”):  so how is recovery possible?

Answer: It is true that there is no “cure” in the sense of a treatment that can be applied by a professional that reliably makes the problem go away.  But it is also true that we have no “cure” for the common cold, and yet fortunately, people do recover from them!  In the case of disorders like “schizophrenia,” recovery is less certain, but it is still a reality for many[i].  Those who do recover most often give some credit to other people who helped them believe that recovery was possible.  It’s interesting that while recovery from colds happens whether or not we believe it is possible (because our immune system does the work), recovery from disorders like “schizophrenia” may require belief that it is possible, because such recovery typically requires a person’s own effort.  People are unlikely to exert this effort if they lack a belief that it may succeed.

Question: Why do you put words like “schizophrenia” and “schizoaffective” in quotes?

Answer: People are often tricked by big words like “schizophrenia” into feeling they are, in Rufus May’s[ii] words, “the passive victims of an active illness.”  But feeling like a passive victim is not an attitude that aids in recovery.  Instead, it often helps to see words like “schizophrenia” as just labels that psychiatrists use when people have certain experiences and behave in certain ways.  (After all, the only way a psychiatrist can make a diagnosis is to ask people about their experiences and notice how they behave: there is no laboratory test.)  People typically have the experiences and behave in the ways that get called “schizophrenia” in response to stresses of various kinds; then they get further stressed out by having the odd experiences & by having to deal with the reactions of other people to their communications and behavior.   Recovery is often facilitated when people focus directly on how to manage this stress and how to reconsider their points of view and change their communication and their behavior, rather than trying to fight or escape from some abstract entity such as their alleged “schizophrenia.”

Question: What does it mean to recover?

My answer: Full recovery means having regained a meaningful life, no longer having a mental health disability, and no longer being in need of any sort of mental health treatment. This definition of “full recovery” should be contrasted with the definitions used by some who suggest that recovery should be thought of as learning how to have a better life, while continuing to be mentally ill and needing treatment such as medications.[iii] Of course, lesser degrees of recovery can also be very important, and it is important to recognize that a person may find a meaningful life all the way along the journey to full recovery, whether or not that full recovery is ever accomplished.  But it is also important to recognize that many people do achieve full recovery, and that it is a realistic goal to work for, and something the mental health system should really be oriented to help people achieve.

(Note that while this definition of full recovery includes “no longer being in need of any sort of mental health treatment” it does not mean that the person must be certain of never needing mental health treatment again in the future – the person might – but this is also a possibility for people who have never been diagnosed.

It is also worth noting that other people have different definitions of recovery, that may emphasize other factors, and these definitions may work better for them!  But I think the possibility of people getting to a place where they no longer are disabled or in need of any “treatment” should be widely acknowledged as a possible part of recovery.)

Question: What is the role of medications in recovery?

Answer: Everyone’s story is different, so there is no one answer to this question.  But consider the following facts:

-          Before medications existed, and currently in cases where people have managed to avoid ever getting medications, people have recovered from “schizophrenia” and similar disorders.  (In fact, overall rates of recovery have not increased since medications were introduced, and recovery rates are typically higher in developing countries that have less access to medications.[iv])

-          Some people have found that medications were initially helpful for them, but as they learned to take care of themselves in other ways, medications gradually became less necessary and were discontinued.

-          Other people have found that medications were never helpful to them, and that recovery was impossible until they got off the medications.

-          And some have found that staying on a low dose of medications while they pursue their dreams is what works best for them.  Even if they believe it might be possible to learn to do without the medication, attempting to learn to do that is not as important to them as other life goals.  While it could be said that they are not “fully recovered” because they still need treatment, it should be pointed out that full recovery is just a possibility, not a requirement that anyone must fulfill in order to have a meaningful life.

Medications are of course what can often make the biggest difference the quickest, and they are heavily promoted by an industry that makes billions of dollars of profits off them, so it is easy to be seduced into  believing that they should be the cornerstone of treatment.  However, they also come with heavy costs in terms of both subjective and objective negative side effects, and some of these effects can even be fatal.[v] A better approach is to first try alternatives wherever possible, so that at least at times medication use can be avoided altogether. [vi] And then, if alternatives fail to succeed and medication does seem necessary, use as little as possible and continue to search for other ways to improve coping over time so that medications can perhaps be eventually reduced or discontinued.[vii]

Question: If medications only help some of the time and even then are only some of the answer, then what really helps people recover?

Answer: “Schizophrenia” and other “psychotic disorders” typically involve responses to stress, responses that in themselves causes more stress to the person and which then cause reactions from others that increase the stress.  Example:  a man who suffered traumas in childhood loses his job and can’t find another, then starts hearing voices, fears the voices mean he is mad, then starts yelling at the voices, resulting in being evicted from his apartment, losing his friends, and is labeled as “mentally ill.”  So what will help?  It might be any number of things.  Being around people who seek to understand his experience rather than label him, and who are friendly despite his odd behavior, can be a big start.  Learning that voice hearing is a pretty normal response to stress and that there are ways to cope with it can help:  this might be learnt in psychotherapy, or through peer support such as in a voice hearer’s group[viii].  Getting help getting housing and back to work can play a huge role in reducing stress.  Certain dietary changes may help, as might a variety of practices that improve his ability to handle stressful circumstances, such as mindfulness exercises, yoga, physical exercise, and a long list of others.  Once he becomes ready, he might find that therapy or other exercises that help him explore and accept his earlier traumas help reduce his vulnerability to stress in the future.   Any of a variety of approaches that increase self understanding, including spiritual approaches, may be helpful.  A key part of recovery is often learning that one’s brain does not have to work exactly like everyone else’s in order to be healthy:  for example many people find that they continue to hear voices, yet once they accept them and know how to cope, they can move on with their lives without hindrance or need to change that experience.

Question: What kind of things get in the way of recovery?

Answer: Here is a partial list:

-          The belief that recovery is not possible

-          Failure to take responsibility for working toward recovery: expecting others to make it happen without your help

-          Additional stress and trauma, such as that induced by being homeless & without a source of income, or the trauma often induced by forced and disrespectful mental health treatment

-          Lack of social support and connection

-          Believing that the disorder is simply “biological” and unrelated to stressful events or to how one handles stressful events

-          Being labeled and categorized by others.  Some say that it is more difficult to recover from mental health stigma than it is to recover from mental health problems themselves

-          For many, medications.  While medications at some points help some people toward recovery, they can also for interfere with recovery, for example by inducing passivity, social unresponsiveness, inability to think clearly, and failure to get the opportunity to learn that one can handle life without medications.

-          Efforts to recover that are made too abruptly.  For example, while medications may be causing problems, quitting abruptly may result in withdrawal or other problems that may then cause relapse or descent into even greater difficulties.  And while a person may be capable of eventually handling stressful life circumstances, taking on challenges of any sort before one is ready can result in setbacks.

-          Being too cautious, going too far to avoid risks.  Recovery requires taking modest risks, with “trying, but not too hard.”  Being too cautious leads to a continued perception of oneself as incompetent, and to never having the opportunity to learn competence.

Obviously, this is just an introduction to the topic of recovery from “schizophrenia” and similar disorders.  To learn more, it can help to read stories of those who have recovered, such as those found at http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/recovery-stories/

I also encourage you to read various postings on my blog,

where I address a wide variety of issues related to the understanding of psychotic disorders and to recovery, and provide links to other resources.


[i] For a summary of the research on recovery from “schizophrenia” see “Long term follow-up studies”.  Also, for a very readable article on some of the myths about “schizophrenia” including the myth that recovery is impossible, written by one of the more prominent researchers, see the “Empirical correction of seven myths” article.

[ii] Rufus May is a psychologist who himself made a full recovery after being diagnosed with “schizophrenia” – check out his website.

[iii] For more explanation of why some attempt to redefine recovery to mean less than really recovered, see my article on that topic.

[iv] A summary of the disappointing results of reliance on medications for treatment can be found in Robert Whitaker’s Anatomy of an Epidemic.

[v]For a summary of the hazards of antipsychotic medications, including the risk of death, and how practice might be different if people were adequately informed about them, see this Full Disclosure article.

[vi] For people who are just beginning to experience psychotic symptoms, simply going to psychotherapy with a knowledgeable therapist can be helpful – see the article cognitive therapy for the prevention of psychosis.  And even when problems are more severe, most people can be helped without antipsychotics if proper help is available – see this article on a Finnish approach.  Of course, when other forms of help are unavailable, people are often forced to rely on medication sooner.

[vii] See the Harm Reduction Guide to Coming Off Psychiatric Drugs for ideas about how to do this.  Also, therapists might want to look at this Therapist’s Guide

[viii] For more information on hearing voices groups, as well as lots of ideas for coping with voices, check out The international community for hearing voices.

{ 125 comments… read them below or add one }

Matthew Pollard November 25, 2011 at 2:47 am

Please consider posting this documentary about recovering from schizophrenia, on your blog. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZud_Q40Vd8&feature=channel_video_title .

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champions December 1, 2011 at 1:34 pm

i have schitzophrenia and take no medication for it. i had it first in early childhood, it stopped, then picked back up again in my mid-late teen years. the disorder can impair ones ability to work and concentrate some days. it is NOT a disorder that in any way effects ones intellagence level as i recieved A’s in some classes through college. It’s associated with axiety and i found can be controlled through reduceing caffiene consumption, makeing sure to sleep for 8 hours, keeping the mind occupied with goals and plans for achieving those goals, and eating healthy. there is no avoiding the few bad days per month occompanied with the disorder and by that i mean getting less than 8 hours of sleep for multiple days in a row and not being able focus at any job as a result. perhaps medication would help but ill never take medication. i found being involved in church groups helps schitzophrenia greatly along with prayer . it is in my hopes to be cured from this mental illness one day or gain a level of comfort with the symtoms associated with schitzophrenia so i can maintain a regular life. a lack of sleep some nights i find is the most impairing along with the angre associated with other symptoms . hearing voices, delusions, hallucinations, paranoia, anxiety, are easy to get use to. i wish i could remember back to when i was a kid, i cured it once before it came back though. id like to undergo a process of hypnosis taking me back to my childhood to find out exactly how or what stopped it. the good news is people have lived long/healthy lives with schitzophrenia like brian wilson from the beach boys. i feel fame would be the best choice for a schitzophrenic career wise because it doesn’t involve any set work schedule. Producers/Directors look for schitzophrenics to take part in films because schitzophrenics will give many low budget films a HUGE budget increase. (from 2.5 million extended to 3.75 million budget limits). If you have schitzophrenia, dont panic this disorder is in no way going to sabatoge your health or ruin your dreams of having a family one day. its just going to take take years of getting use to and plenty of thoughts that involve finding alternative routes toward a succesful social/finacial future. i found new career goals that i never would have dreamed of coming true along with a tremendouse amount of willpower that i gained from having what many would consider to be a horrible mental illness. Just remember to never give up, try and find the good associated with any mental illness and cures that dont always involve medication. expand levels of thinking and its ok and exciting to be abnormal.

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champions December 1, 2011 at 1:50 pm

ALSO- schitzophrenia IS POSSIBLE to recover from. I know from first hand experiance i have recovered from it 100% and forgot all about it for over 10 years i was completely mentally normal. Somehow it came back for years now but i await its dissapearence and a full recovery as once before. i did not need medication in my early childhood for schitzophrenia somehow it was cured on its own that’s why i think medication is not neccesary for a full recovery.

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Arjuna Suriyakanthan February 25, 2012 at 3:54 pm

I was reading your article and i found it very positive. Thanks you

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Greta Kapadia March 6, 2012 at 4:40 am

Looking for help for my son Mark Kapadia . Phone number 267-595-1875.Thanks

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erika March 10, 2012 at 1:50 pm

i need help for my brother i know he has all these symptoms but also he started to mess with drugs and he has gotten worse i have no idea how to help him or what help is out there for him? he talks to people that are not there. he also just stares at the wall for awhile and snaps back to reality 2 min later. he talks about death .
you can email me at erica_peruchick@yahoo.com
if you have any suggestions thanks =)

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aaron crouse March 12, 2012 at 1:21 pm

i suffer from severe depression with pyshcotic features. i am so exausted that i cant do things. i cant see up or down. and i know part of what would help is my hormones. one state says regardless of it hurting treament the the hormones i am male to female transsexual that its beneficial and case by case the current state i live in says if it causes more mnetal illness who take it but are pill pushers that in the forstsix weeks etc can cause same problems so it has nothing to do what they say but the stigma of transsexuality. i am on disablity cant afford to move i live on my own but my parents take care of me and yet i dream of my personal religion telling i am the biggest hypocrit that i have the power to change wtf how do i do that. medicine works s… on me this is why before the best of best a team of doctors gave me a diagnosis their of borderline personality but where i live here regardless of that i know best i am the docotor attitude and since you cant take take meds right we dont know. i take meds for right for 6-12 weeks were it should kick in and it doesnt so i now my body others times i cant remmber to take them or so pissed off at my docotrs not giving a s… about me. so whats my answer doctor. i want to get well but i am my biggest problem. part of the neourpsych diagnosis was the severe depression but for whats it worth they cant figure out my label they thought i was bipolar, bipolar meds screwed me over and apparrentlly i aint bipolar but act it. and legally i know they aint harming me but damn well feels like it , its just ? and they uggest it if it got worse do medievil therapy torture me thy shall do no harm so how electro shk therapy therapy.for whats it worth i am in morgantown wv.

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iris April 27, 2012 at 8:39 pm

I would have been diagnosed with scitz. if I’d seen a doctor. I heard voices and experienced other sound distortions and disordered thinking. I knew that I was crazy, but instinctively knew that being labeled as such would be very detrimental to my well being. Anyhow, that time in my life was pure Hell and I barley made it out alive (with out giving in to my desire to end my own life). I really try not to remember that time because it was just too painful. My friends and family didn’t know what was going on either, all they knew was that I was suddenly very reclusive and I had no regular job, I just worked for a temp agency long enough each week to pay my few bills. I did research and found that b12 deficiency can cause these symptoms, and so as I was vegetarian I started taking those to help. Honestly though I feel like praying was what saved me, just accepting that God would help me and giving up my desire for power.
So I started praying everyday and then I started meditating. Now 15 years later, no one around me knows about this past. I have many friends and have been married for 7 years and I have never told my husband about my past and would never suspect such a thing about my past. I have a rewarding life and am finishing up my nursing degree soon, and have two wonderful, brilliant, children whom I care for with all the love and attention of any other doting mother. I am living proof that someone can completely recover from this horrible state, without medication or therapy of any kind. I still meditate and pray daily and I devote a great deal of my time into volunteer work to help others.

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Ron Unger April 28, 2012 at 9:22 am

Hi Iris,

Thanks for sharing that great story! I hope you consider sharing it, even without sharing anything that would identify yourself, at other places – for example you might consider sharing it at MindFreedom’s version of “it gets better” at http://www.mindfreedom.org/campaign/boycott-normal/life-after-labels

When I was a young guy, I heard voices only very briefly, but I had lots of weird perspectives and beliefs and “disordered thinking” that was also an attempt to transcend the limits of thinking, and like you, I knew that sharing my experiences with mental health professionals would not be a wise move! There should be a term for people in our category – we are not consumers or ex-consumers or survivors, since we never partook of the system, at least at the time of our real crisis. The best word that I’ve come up with so far is “escapees” which refers to the fact that we escaped from both the mental health system and our own crisis.

Paris Williams, the author of Rethinking Madness, who will be presenting a couple of webinars in mid May, is also an “escapee” in that he had his own fall into extreme experiences, from which he recovered without help from the system, and then he went on to become a psychologist fascinated with the possibility of recovery and with seeing the whole experience of madness differently.

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Louise Gillett May 3, 2012 at 2:51 pm

Hi Ron

I thought I commented on here ages ago, but can’t find any trace of it, so maybe I didn’t after all. Just wanted to say that I think this is a brilliant blog – I have been pointing people to it for a long time. Thank you for providing this resource. Also, I wanted to add my voice to those of others reporting their recovery from ‘schizophrenia’ – it is good to read about so many of them on here. I have written a book about my recovery, ‘Surviving Schizophrenia: A Memoir’. I am not writing this post to sell books though – in fact, the book will be free this Saturday, so please help yourselves anyone who wants a copy.
All the best, Louise

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Ron Unger May 3, 2012 at 8:54 pm

Hi Louise,

One possibility is that you posted here a long time ago, but that your comment was lost when the site crashed awhile ago. Thanks anyway for your kind remarks, and for sharing your recovery story – those stories are really important!

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Jonny May 10, 2012 at 7:47 am

Hi

one issue has perplexed me
somtimes a person with this condition may tell stories about another person or about the person they a re talking to, that are simply not true – even though they themselves belive them to be true

When confronted by these issues is it better to agree with the person
or tell them that this is not true even though this may make the situation worse

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Ron Unger May 10, 2012 at 8:32 am

Hi Jonny, I think in the situation you describe it isn’t helpful to confront the person and just state that you know what they are saying isn’t true: this makes it sound like you are an absolute authority on the subject, rather than an equal to the person with your own limited perspective. But I also think it isn’t helpful to just agree – that puts you in the position of colluding with the person, later they can look back and say “well Jonny also agrees this is true!”

Instead, you can do things like be curious how they came to that conclusion, or about how they make sense of evidence that suggests a different conclusion. You can let them know you were thinking of it a different way, or ask them how they make sense of the fact that others seem to see it differently, if they are aware of that being the case.

This is really what we do with our peers who seem to have different conclusions about reality than we do. We think the game is Saturday, they think it is Friday: so we ask them how they came to that conclusion, we compare notes about our perspectives. Sometimes we have to agree to disagree for awhile when there is no quick resolution of different points of view.

One interesting thing is that people are more likely to take in contrary information when they are feeling good about themselves. So if we maintain a positive relationship with someone where they know we see positive things about them, they are more likely to be able to look at evidence they may be wrong about something. This goes for all people, not just those with “schizophrenia” or “psychosis!” For more on that, look at

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/05/09/152287372/partisan-psychology-why-are-people-partial-to-political-loyalties-over-facts?ps=cprs

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Jonny May 16, 2012 at 4:18 am

excellent as always thank tou

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ross June 9, 2012 at 6:45 pm

Hi Ron and others,
Is there a way to have psychiatric medical records
deleted or sealed?

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Ron Unger June 9, 2012 at 10:27 pm

I’m no expert on this. In my experience, which is limited, usually confidentiality applies to records, which means that unless someone admits they were treated at a given facility or by a given doctor and signs a release of information, those records are not to be disclosed to anyone. There may be exceptions I don’t know about though, and if someone is involved in the legal system,I know the situation is different. Does anyone else have more to say about this?

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ross June 10, 2012 at 9:14 pm

Thanks Ron,
In Canada we have universal healthcare. Unless a Dr.
has been instructed not too, he can disclose medical records. However, in case of incapacity he can disclose or gain access to psychiatric medical records. In the us everything will be put on one database, in the next few years. I don’t like the idea of a diagnosis being my introduction when meeting my next dr. I know that medical records can be seeled by courts under certain circumstances, i just don’t know what they are…
I have read your research and found it very interesting and very true. Do you think it is a good idea to explore delusional/ obsessional thinking when these thoughts start to weigh in? Or is it better, to distract oneself with other thoughts or behaviours ie a hobby or other interest?
Thanks

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Ron Unger June 10, 2012 at 9:42 pm

It certainly sounds scary if people’s psychiatric records are just freely available to any professional, who then may use them rather than getting to know you to make judgments! It does make sense that the records should be accessible to a treating dr. if the person is incapacitated, but then it seems they should become confidential again once the person regains capacity. I hope that’s how they will do it in the US……

As for delusional or obsessional thinking, and what to do, I would say do both of the things you suggest! That is, sometimes divert oneself into other thoughts or behaviors or interests, but sometimes face them directly and explore them. The same suggestion goes for voices – voice hearers often even make appointments with them, say 1/2 hour a day to listen to them and be curious, at other times just pay attention to other things. The problem with always using distraction is that one feels incompetent to actually face it, and never sorts out the underlying issues: the problem with spending too much time facing them is one can drown or get overwhelmed, and other areas of one’s life can be neglected. Alternating works best, most find.

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Pamela Spiro Wagner June 20, 2012 at 8:02 am

“Maybe there is absolutely nothing to the notion of schizophrenia. Is it possible that we all believe there is something there, when there is nothing, nothing at all? Am I crazy to say this? I do not deny suffering. I do not deny that I myself experience phenomena, that I feel weird things and hear strange and scary things and suffer. And I certainly do not deny that others feel and hear and see and experience strange and scary or unusual things. They certainly have their experiences. But, and this is the heart of the matter: Just because we have these experiences, does that mean they constitute a construct, a real thing, an entity, an illness per se? Why? Why can we not have these experiences by themselves without them having to be a something, without them having to be an it?

I am serious. If we did not make all these experiences into a something, if we did not scoop up each experience and mash them all together into one big Thing and wrap that up and label it bad, bad, bad, and then hand ourselves over to the psychiatrists to diagnose and treat and to Big Pharma to medicate, not to mention allowing Big Insurance to rob us all blind while doing nothing for us, if we did not allow all of that to happen, and at the same time if instead we decided that our experiences were valid experiences, not invalid, sick, but honest and real experiences that need to be honored, taken seriously, not scorned or contemned, what would happen?

Wow, I wonder. I wonder…”

Ron, that’s what I wrote in my own blog, Wagblog, just a few days ago. And yet, I cannot stake anything near to a claim to the sort of recovery you describe. Having borne the diagnosis of schizophrenia for 3 decades now and suffered both from those “extreme experiences” and from extremely brutalizing and traumatic hospital stays far too often, I can only wonder about a near-60-old with a history such as mine (nearly lethal consequences following command hallucinations more than once) and whether I am not too old for that kind of full recovery. On the one hand, in just these last seven years, despite some “mental precariousness,” I have written and/or co-written two published books, one a well-known memoir, and not only become (amazingly to me) an artist but put on two solo shows. Three years ago, I even started to drive a car again for the first time in twenty years.

On the other hand, I was just released from the hospital after an involuntary stay of 4 weeks in March 2012, and before that in August 2011. I see a psychiatrist weekly, and I take multiple medications…But you know, I am not sitting around doing nothing, and I am not watching TV all day long. I do art every day all day long, and when I am not doing art, I write nonstop. I have many good friends my age to visit me and I go see the elderly friends who need me to visit them. It is the best life that I have had since childhood, and it keeps getting better. No, not the hospital stays, those are lousy, though the place that takes me now is compassionate and caring.

At present, I work with a case manager to see if we can keep me home somehow, even in a major crisis, but I feel reasonably good most of the time, and am keeping my fingers crossed that things will not go haywire out of the blue. Nevertheless, this feels like a good enough substitute for “full recovery.” I do not know how I could possibly achieve anything different or more “real,” given the hurdles. It seems to me that it is far less important that I not see a mental health provider or stop taking meds etc than that I am productive and happy and busy doing creative work. In my good times, I flourish. I hate the word schizophrenia, and I reject that term of diagnosis. Absolutely. I do not know or understand what is wrong. But what more can I ask from life? At this point, it’s mostly all good to me.

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Ron Unger June 20, 2012 at 8:43 am

Hi Pamela,

I very much agree with you that it is misleading to take all the experiences and behaviors that get called “schizophrenia” and wrap them up into a “thing” and then see that as the problem. It is much more helpful to try to understand the individual experiences and behaviors.

At the same time, there are some barriers to your idea of deciding that all of these experiences are “valid experiences, not invalid, sick, but honest and real experiences that need to be honored, taken seriously, not scorned or condemned.” The problem is that many of the experiences are extremely problematic, and if taken too seriously can lead to threats to self or others. People are afraid of that, and so they do scorn, condemn, and avoid such experiences. I think it works best to think of a healthy reaction as neither valuing the experiences too much, nor avoiding them to much, as I wrote about in a recent post, http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2012/06/avoidance-of-voices-can-be-as-problematic-as-listening-too-much/

Thanks for sharing the complex story of your recovery. As I have written elsewhere, I understand that the most important part of recovery is finding a way to live a valued life, and I see you are doing that. Whether or not one achieves other parts of recovery is a less important thing, though still of some value. And it’s important that people be told about the possibility of other kinds of recovery, because people do their recovery in different orders, and everyone has to decide which aspect of recovery is most important at any give time to him or her.

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samuel August 27, 2012 at 12:05 pm

i love what you said at last!
our personality got filled with many images that we dont need !
so when we faced this issue! we had a little difficulty recognizing ourself; but we are still here !
indeed what more can we ask from life;
sometimes we are in paradise without noticing,
we just suffered from the groups ! who insist on a way of life that our standerds or our taste didnt pretty much allow!
i loved your story

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Andy June 26, 2012 at 1:00 pm

i need help for my Cousin i know he has all these symptoms but also he started to mess with drugs and he has gotten worse i have no idea how to help him or what help is out there for him? he talks to people that are not there. he also fight for no reason and bite .
you can email me at anandandies@rediffmail.com

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Andrew July 4, 2012 at 6:12 pm

I need help for my wife. She has been diagnosed as bi polar with psychotic behavior. She is also paranoid and refuses to take any medications. She will not even take asprin given to her in the hospital. Any suggestions as to what I can do. Please Help. Thanks

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jalopycaravan July 6, 2012 at 12:30 am

Can anyone help me with information on how to find a psychiatrist (in Canada) who would be SUPPORTIVE in my efforts to COME OFF of medication???

Thank you!

jc
jalopycaravan@gmail.com

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Ron Unger July 7, 2012 at 8:10 am

I would suggest that anyone in the US who is looking for support from professionals for a more psychological and less totally medical approach, should look at the directory at
http://www.isps-us.org/membership_main.php This allows you to search by state, city, etc. to find the ISPS members who live near you (at least the ones who chose to be listed.) Not all of the members are professionals but even if the person you contact cannot help you, there is a good chance they will know someone in the area who can.
You can also search by country, because ISPS-US has a few members from other countries. Unfortunately, there are only a couple Canadian contacts, but maybe they could be helpful to JC.

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samuel August 27, 2012 at 11:59 am

here is my email;
sepultur60@gmail.com
i have a story to tell :)
i wrote my story here but there was an error, and itgot erased; it was long and i have to go now, sorry guys see you later
And yes, there is a cure;
the origine of the problem is an illusion, so the cure is nothing,; because there is nothing basicly; it just took place in your brain; thats all;
so inteligently we will arrive; never blind yourself by loss of hope;
just never try to become the old you that is origine of the problem; because the new organized you; and get used to it; and observe the days becoming better than the previous ones!
god is important in life !

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Gabby August 31, 2012 at 9:15 am

God helps me too. God wants me to withdraw from the system of psychiatry. He didn’t have to tell me. I simply heard him within my soul. God is a miracle worker. People want to experience God but can only turn away from Gods wonders. God is my strength. God gave me my gifts that turned into schizophrenia due to an existential crisis. I told god I was going to become crazy because I was angry at the things god allows people to do. Honest. I did this on purpose once upon a time and invented the trap that kept me “sane” from God. He forgave me. But psychiatrists never forgive ur history because they live in perpetual delusion of the power of spirit. It’s hard to admit the truth, but sometimes it’s all we have to go by. They don’t believe in God. Pills are their utopia.

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Gabby August 31, 2012 at 9:05 am

I am hoping to get off the antipsychotic medication soon. I don’t want to wait to remove the dependence. Years of therapy and medication only worked to resolve trauma from my hospitalization and suicide attempt which led to their diagnosis of schizophrenia. I don’t want to pay big bucks for a holistic psychiatrist. I figure by withdrawing cold turkey I stand to exemplify their failure to truly help me/ cure my arbitrary illness. I will continue taking Adderall though. It helps me with irratability and focusing. My therapist says I had undiaognesed ADHD so now I have this plus schizoaffective and the worthless alcohol abuse label because I am not a quote normal student and am not allowed do get drunk once and awhile. Getting drunk apparently would worsen my false symptoms, because I don’t experience symptoms when I’m actually beyond the norms of mildly depressed mood. Hell I don’t drink more than a few beers a week. I want out and no one listened. Now I have to prove it to the world how much their fucking system ruined my beautiful life and intelligence. I took the college sat when I was in jr middle school. Abilify has doped me up and made me convince myself with their help I have a biologically damaged brain. All that worked for me was the very think they screwed with, cognition memory learning independence self reliance free will love honesty and responsibility for myself alone. Im looking forward to the madness.

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Ross September 1, 2012 at 8:56 pm

Hi Ron,
I have a question. If someone is living a certain lifestyle due to religious prohibitions on sexual promiscuity ie abstinence, for many years, can this be a cause of psychosis or erotomania. In other words If someone has girls on his head all the time but he never does anything about it, can this cause delusions- erotomania?

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sanjay makhija September 22, 2012 at 2:36 pm

Need advise for my son who has delusion and psychotic illness and taking medicine and for past one and half years medications are arpiprazole 20mg, depkaote sr 500mg, olanzipine 20mg,parking 2mg and lonacen 0.25mg

he t illness in 2008 and still going on and will he be alright regular session of psychotherpy and psychiatris treatment is h=giong on please advise

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Ron Unger September 23, 2012 at 8:59 am

Hi Sanjay,

I can’t really offer specific advice for specific people that I don’t know on this blog, but I hope that some of what is written here is of at least some use to you and your son. Also I hope you find knowledgeable people who have a positive view of recovery and who can get to know your son and you and be really helpful!

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Joan Boyle (Mrs) November 5, 2012 at 6:35 am

Could I have your permission to print in our free Centre Magazine, Derriaghy News&Views, David Makler’s report on the Family Care Centre in Gottenburg, Sweden.? I was excited to read about it -how I wish they had that here! I am a service user volunteer in Derriaghy Cente near Belfast and I’m editor of the magazine. I would love to share it with Other Members.
Also could I quote from your article which precedes it?
our free magazine’s circulation: for Centre Members, local psych ward and hostel, 2 drop-ins and some ex-centre members: total 55 copies. Thank you, Yoours sincerely, Joan Boyle

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Alina November 16, 2012 at 10:38 am

I have to say that I disagree with the idea that just because a person may still be on medication that this means they “need” it. I believe a person can have successfully dealt with many significant issues that were causing them problems & be very much “recovered” from those AND at the same time not necessarily have completely ceased medication… Especially as medications usually need to be reduced slowly so as to avoid withdrawal issues. I think it’s totally possible to have dealt with much psychological, social, emotional type stuff & still be tapering off. I don’t think anyone is in the position to judge that being on medication is the same as “needing” it. It could very well be something extra that was forced on the person that isn’t helping at all & may in fact be hindering them. I also think we need to be really careful about defining for others what “full recovery” means. To include not being on any meds whatsoever as part of the criteria is a real slap in the face to all those pple who have successfully dealt with a lot of things & discovered a meaningful satisfying life that THEY are content with… One of the biggest unhelpful perpetrations of the mental health system against clients has been to impose THEIR definition of what is healthy, acceptable & worthwhile in life upon them & I think it’s really important not to replicate this damaging mistake. To me recovery is living life how you want it according to what’s valuable, worthwhile & meaningful ( & here’s the important part) AS DEFINED BY YOU. I don’t believe anyone else has the right to define that for another. Personally while I prefer cessation of meds I’m not such a purist to deny the fact that some pple are living great (maybe not perfect) lives they are happy with & still happen to be on meds. We risk creating a hierarchy of ‘who’s more recovered’ & invalidating others experience by defining recovery for them instead of acknowledging what success in life is to them & the fact that they have & are achieving that.

I see recovery as a dynamic, living process rather than a destination & that it doesn’t necessarily begin or end with ‘not taking meds’ After all we are always learning, growing & having new experiences, “full recovery” & ‘no meds’ sounds a bit to me like a perfectionist, shame based way of defining & talking about it which can be quite damaging & invalidate the great progress & strides people have made & are continuing to make… Since when do you make a “full recovery” from life anyway? For me recovery needs to include navigating the vicissitudes of life imperfectly & still allows for me to make mistakes or receive support & assistance from others when I need it, maybe even taking a med if it really can help. I don’t believe this “full recovery” status should be some reward for eliminating problems or meds in ones life, I mean who’s ever going to be problem free? To me a healthy definition of recovery needs to be fluid & inclusive of the full spectrum of experience- to me it’s not about being med free or issue free… (Good luck with that) It really saddens me to see pple judging themselves as failures when they find that they still have moments of despair, depression or are unable to remain 100% med free 100% of the time. Maybe if recovery were defined as ongoing discovery, learning & growth throughout life & less by rigid self or other imposed notions of perfection there would be less shame & it would allow the necessary breathing space for real healing to occur. I understand healing is different & not necessarily curing… I think a truly holistic approach aims for healing rather than cure. In the end what’s our motivation & intention when it comes to recovery? Is it about being rewarded with some kind of “full recovery” status for appearing issue free & not needing meds? or is it about healing? I believe each person needs to answer that for themselves.

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Ron Unger November 17, 2012 at 10:02 am

Alina, I would like to point out that anyone who is on anti-psychotic medication and who doesn’t truly need it, should stop taking it immediately, as these drugs are quite dangerous! Of course, it can also be dangerous to stop quickly, but what that means is that the person does need the drug until a weaning off process can be successfully completed.

I would also point out that I never said that whether or not one is still on medications is evidence of the greater or lesser value of someone’s life. People can be not fully recovered from other kinds of things, and yet still have lives that are awesome – for example, someone might have had a spine injury, and not have fully recovered from it, yet be in the middle of living a great life. None of this means we have to twist words around and say they are “fully recovered” even while they still need a brace to walk, just as it doesn’t make sense to say a person has “fully recovered” from a mental or emotional problem when that person still has to take a medication in order to function.

I also think it is important to avoid confusing mental health recovery with never having problems (which, as you point out, is actually impossible while still being alive!) I think it is much more helpful to define it in terms of not being disabled by the problem and not requiring specific mental health treatment in order to function well. This is an achievable goal, not an endless process, though as I point out, it doesn’t mean we can guarantee that we will never have a mental health disability or need for treatment at some future point, since all humans have some vulnerability. And it is also not a goal that anyone has to aim at: some people may have other goals that are more important or meaningful to them and to others, than to try to reach this full recovery. I would certain not say that a person is a “lesser person” for not having achieved or even being interested in trying to achieve a full mental health recovery, anymore than I would say a person is a lesser person for not having achieved a full recovery from a spinal cord injury: the way they live their life may have kinds of meaning and significance that in many ways go beyond that of people who never had disabilities or who had them and then did fully recover!

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Caroline February 27, 2013 at 10:35 pm

Way cool! Some very valid points! I appreciate you writing
this post and the rest of the website is also really good.

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Dr Barbara Coplans March 3, 2013 at 6:24 am

Dear Ron

I would be very grateful if you would take down my posting on your website as it shows up on Google.

Many thanks

Barbara Coplans

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billy April 5, 2013 at 1:43 pm

Hi Ron,
I have to say this is the most valid alternative writing for commonly pro-medication writing I’ve found on website (and my psychiatrist advises) yet and thank you for that.

From what I’ve been through, living in medication means blurry vision, much limited creativity of thoughts, some kind of pressure in my head, and worse, those combined with hallucinations that usually occurs from afternoon (and sometimes daylight) till I fell asleep on the night. Conversely, living without medication means much better and clearly life but the price that is to paid for is living with the fear of relapse. I had been relapsed two times for now. Fortunately, this has been more than 7 months I don’t relapse. And this is pretty improving cycles (when I first relapsed, it takes 6 months remission, second is 3 months). But like I said, I have to live with the fear of relapse. But it’s much better condition than to live with horrible side effects of medications.

Just about recently, maybe three weeks, I have found a term to define my mental condition which is schizophrenia and just from about this dawn (I’m in Indonesia and currently 9 p.m) I have finally found a term that defines my condition much, much correct which is schizoaffective. It is supposedly not ideal to know my condition this very time considering I had been hospitalized in February 2011 and that is two years ago.
There are two main reasons for this: 1st, back then when I’m on the postpsychosis phase (or residual schizophrenia), I curiously and eagerly asked my psychiatrist, “doctor, what exactly is happening to me, what kind of sickness I have been undergoing?” and then he replied diplomatically and annoyingly, “does that even matter?”. And I asked again,”yeah, but what to explain to my friends if they had such questions?” and he reluctantly answered with such doubt facial expression and quite unclear voice, “Just tell them that you have bipolar disorder”. I had to ask again,”what.. disorder?”. From the way he answered it was very unconvincing, 180 degrees different than the way he gave me prescribing which is very unequivocal and authoritative voice. However, that is the term I had been using until three weeks ago although I very rarely used it to explain to most of my friends because they seemed apathetic about my condition. (Maybe they think, he is CRAZY and that’s him. No need to ask further.)
2nd, although the doctor diagnosed me with pretty wrong term, I think it is not wise to put a fault to him (although I can and MUST do that considering misleading information he gave me) because I could easily did research on web. And that is what I’m not into until recently. It was very daunting actually just to imagine how slowly but surely you will find specific term about what is really happening to you and to google for the definition for such term and I hadn’t been ready to undergo such experience back then. However, I decided to scrutinize the research this dawn mainly because of the fear of relapse that constantly pushes me even harder to do so as time goes by.
My questions are:1st. Why the doctor did not give correct term about what’s happening to me? I’m very sure he knows that I am having schizoaffective from the fact that he asked me questions such as how often do you hear sounds, etc. (which implies the symptomps of schizophrenia, not bipolar disorder) and kind of medicines he gave me that includes antipsychosis and antidepressant medications. Is that a typical blurry (or misleading) answer from psychiatrists around the world to explain to his or her patient about their condition? Is there some ethical code between psychiatrists to not explain clear diagnosis to their patient (maybe because of social and psychological impact considerations to the patient, such as self-stigmatized, I mean, bipolar disorder from what I read is much better mental condition stigma than schizophrenia or schizoaffective, isn’t it?)?

2nd. What do you mean by quickly stopping medications? What is the span of time to define “quickly”?

Regards.

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Ron Unger April 5, 2013 at 6:25 pm

Hi Billy,

I wouldn’t know exactly why your doctor hedged on giving you a clear diagnosis – it might have been because he didn’t think you clearly fit into one category or another, and it might have been because he thought you yourself might be better off if you just told people “bipolar” rather than scarier terms like “schizophrenia” or “schizoaffective.”
It’s important to know that the diagnostic categories don’t really tell you your fate. People can tell you that if you are diagnosed bipolar, your odds of getting to a recovery are better than if you are diagnosed with schizophrenia, but that’s kind of like saying your odds of succeeding in college are better if you come from one town than if you come from another town: you can come from the town where your odds are better and still fail, and you can come from the town where your odds are less good and you can succeed. Much of it, of course, is up to you. And if they tell you your odds are poor, that in itself might make you give up and fail, and that also could be what the psychiatrist wants to avoid.
As for how slowly to reduce medications, this can depend on a lot of factors, including how long the person has been on the drugs. If a person has been on them for years, they may do better if they literally take years to get off. Take a look at http://www.willhall.net/files/ComingOffPsychDrugsHarmReductGuide2EdZinePrint.pdf for more ideas.

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billy April 13, 2013 at 6:49 pm

Yeah, I think so, bipolar diagnosis my doctor gave me is just his social consideration. Thanks for the pdf, it gives me enough points I’ve been looking for.

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Matt April 6, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Omega 3 is essential for anyone suffering from schizophrenia or at risk of doing so. There are also other vitamins and supplements that should be taken. The only multivitamin made specifically for schizophrenia is SBX which can be found at http://www.sbxsupplements.com along with all of the reasearch about why each ingredient needs to be taken.

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Dan J April 23, 2013 at 8:53 pm

My son was diagnosed schizo affective in 2004. He was hospitalized for 3 weeks and has had a psychiatrist and been taking various drugs regularly up to last April when he started ‘cheating on his meds’. Since the he has been on and off them but very difficult to live with. While taking medications he completed high school with good grades and earned an associates degree from a local community college. Last April was when he ‘Crashed’ and became very erratic. After seeing a therapist he has begged us to move out on his own. This December after much apartment hunting he moved into a nice unit about 20 miles from us. He doesn’t drive so we have to transport him when he goes food shopping and to doctor, otherwise he rides a bike. Gradually he’s been dropping off on his medications again but he rides his bike 2-3 hours a day (coping mechanism?). I am almost ready to let him go off of them, he seems to be able to manage by himself except he does not keep his apartment clean. He keeps up his personal hygiene though so maybe eventually he can be trained to clean up. If he wants to walk all day or ride his bike, I guess it’s OK if it gets him through without to many voices or hallucinations. It’s an energy outlet that keeps him more stable. He is 25 now, ever since he first acted strangely 8 years ago, I have been praying for him, I believe in Christian Science and Unity both of which are meditative beliefs. He has a very scientific mind and is an Atheist which wish I could change.

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Ron Unger April 23, 2013 at 9:05 pm

Just a thought, but maybe your son would be interested in learning some kind of meditative or mindfulness practice in order to further his emotional health? See for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNp-7DT2u8E This might both help him do better mentally and emotionally, and also help him appreciate the meditative aspects of your spiritual practice, even if he does assert his independence by remaining an Atheist.

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