Comments for Recovery from "schizophrenia" and other "psychotic disorders"

Comment on Cognitive Therapy for Psychosis with Ron Unger in Eugene Oregon by deng,hong

deng,hong — Sat, 04 Feb 2012 12:43:28 +0000

you give me new hope of recovery through trying an alternative way of escaping from the mental illness. thanks!

Comment on Listening for the Truth Within Talk that Sounds Delusional: a Key Yet Rare Mental Health Method by Ron Unger

Ron Unger — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 04:23:57 +0000

Hi Alice, I agree with the main point of your post, that we humans have a problem in understanding each other generally, and it is worse with those diagnosed with stuff like “schizophrenia.” I think that rather than try to understand such people, both society and then the mental health system decide it is easier to see them as “non-understandable.”
Ever since I first heard Jared’s question “What is government if words have no meaning?” I related to it pretty strongly. It reminded me of the perspective of myself and some of my friends during my late teens/early 20’s, when we were challenging everything, even the meaning of words and reason itself, and then had to face the question, how to make any decision at all if nothing has any particular meaning? Questions like this can be part of creative or revolutionary ferment, though such ferment can also lead to a dangerous confusion and fundamentalism such as what apparently led Jared to become a killer.
I think people often have a fear of understanding people who are different, because if the Other is making sense, then one’s own sense is in some degree questionable. And unless we have skills in facing the unknown and the ungovernable world of Mystery at the heart of our existence, we don’t like knowing that our own sense is questionable. So I think you are touching on some important issues on your blog, and I wish you well with it.

Comment on Listening for the Truth Within Talk that Sounds Delusional: a Key Yet Rare Mental Health Method by Ron Unger

Ron Unger — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 04:21:33 +0000

I’m posting this by permission from the author who left this comment on my facebook notice about this blog post:

Alice Lombardo Maher Ron, the “truth within the delusional” is exactly what I just wrote about in my own blog post, on the home page of my website, http://www.changingourconsciousness.org. The title of the post, “What Is Government if Words Have No Meaning?” is the question Jared Loughner asked Rep. Gabrielle Giffords in 2007, almost 4 years before he shot her. I know that I use the word “schizophrenia” in a way that might make you uncomfortable, but I think that the kind of audience I’m talking to needs to conceptualize thought process differences and consider the possibility that even the strangest ideas might have meaning, before they can consider letting go of those stereotyping and dismissive diagnostic labels. I’d love to hear your reactions.

Comment on Finding out more about the “Open Dialogue” approach on the web by Listening for the Truth Within Delusional Beliefs: a Key Yet Rare Mental Health Method

Sun, 29 Jan 2012 22:39:31 +0000

[...] the better psychological approaches, like CBT for psychosis, or Open Dialogue, professionals take an interest in what consumers say, and they don’t assume they know for [...]

Comment on CBT for Psychosis & Trauma & Psychosis Handouts by Listening for the Truth Within Delusional Beliefs: a Key yet Rare Mental Health Method

Sun, 29 Jan 2012 22:38:43 +0000

[...] the better psychological approaches, like CBT for psychosis, or Open Dialogue, professionals take an interest in what consumers say, and they don’t [...]

Comment on Distinguishing Mysticism from Psychosis: Is That the Wrong Idea? by Ron Unger

Ron Unger — Fri, 27 Jan 2012 04:57:23 +0000

Hi PsycSista,

I recently wrote up a list of articles, books and websites related to the subject of psychosis and spirituality, available at
http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Spiritual-handout1.rtf

That might help some, but it’s a very partial list.

Comment on Distinguishing Mysticism from Psychosis: Is That the Wrong Idea? by PsycSista

PsycSista — Thu, 26 Jan 2012 16:21:08 +0000

I am currently looking at this very thing as a potential topic for my thesis. Ron, could you direct me to some possible sources for info?
thanks so much for posting it.

Comment on “Psychosis” is more like a revolution than it is an “illness.” by Ron Unger

Ron Unger — Tue, 24 Jan 2012 03:51:28 +0000

Hi Murfomurf,

It’s interesting what you say about your experience talking to people’s voices, as a non-therapist. Actually the Voice Dialogue work I referenced is being pioneered by people who aren’t therapists, especially by people who are part of the Hearing Voices movement. When I’ve gone to train therapists in how to do this some of them worry it might cause scary voices to emerge that they won’t know how to handle, but I think the voice hearers themselves are much less frightened of other people’s voices, because they’ve had to deal with voices of their own.

Comment on “Psychosis” is more like a revolution than it is an “illness.” by Murfomurf

Murfomurf — Mon, 23 Jan 2012 10:56:27 +0000

I can certainly see psychosis as a revolution- it seems that in some people their brain (or part of it) goes off on a whole new track, leaving the original personality bewildered, dominated, liberated or nearly destroying it. Like a revolution that happens around you and you don’t realise it’s happening until too late. With voices, I like the philosophy of allowing the voice-hearing person chat with the voices and the therapist to find anything of value that might guide control or emergence from a psychotic “domination”. Although I haven’t been a therapist I have talked with and interviewed many people with psychoses and always took the tack that they should let their voices or “apparitions” into the conversation, eg. the woman who said there was an old nun sitting on the footstool near my legs and telling her to go and shout at the neighbours etc. Mind you, the transcription clerk who listened to the tapes had to ask me many questions about who she should record was saying some of the sentences!
In Australia with the current trend towards reforming the mental health system, I think that peer-led organisations for therapeutic benefit would be a bad idea. Some version of shared decision-making seems OK to me [I'm also on the other side of the couch with major depression], but allowing patients/clients to totally govern is quite frightening when I listen to the loudest voices in the debate! We would have individuals who “hate doctors, psychiatrists, hospitals, social workers, police and drugs” and with major personality disorders calling the shots! No thank you very much! These people want a revolution and they truly WANT to become the oppressors! Meanwhile I might read some more of your posts.

Comment on “Psychosis” is more like a revolution than it is an “illness.” by Ron Unger

Ron Unger — Sun, 22 Jan 2012 19:37:40 +0000

Hi Eric,

It was good to see your comment, thanks.

I agree with you that “psychosis” is a term that comes with a lot of baggage and misleading associations, but I still use it because its use is so widespread, and it often helps to at least start with terminology people are familiar with.

“Extreme states” is popular with many who champion alternative perspectives, but it really is more vague than psychosis, as one can be extremely depressed, or anxious, etc. without being “psychotic.” “Psychosis” tends to mean some mixture of being “disorganized” (or experimenting with alternate forms of organization) and being out of touch with important aspects of reality (while possibly being in touch with other aspects that may usually be missed.) I’m not aware of a good alternative word for that.

Revolutions, civil wars, etc. can have good or bad outcomes, and those of us who try to influence their outcomes might best be aware of how the bad outcomes we see might be a result of the way our intervention is being unhelpful, and not simply due to the nature of the revolution itself. We need to develop wiser ways of interacting with people in these states than most of what is traditionally done.