Comments on: The role of “accepting differences” in recovery http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2009/11/the-role-of-accepting-differences-in-recovery/ New understandings of the mind and of madness can open new doors to full recovery - thoughts from way outside the straightjacket of the "medical model." By Ron Unger LCSW Wed, 16 May 2012 15:34:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Marian http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2009/11/the-role-of-accepting-differences-in-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-1186 Marian Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:52:23 +0000 http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/?p=251#comment-1186 Haha! Really good question. I think, we definitely have the potential. The tricky question is whether we, humanity as a whole, can achieve the self-/awareness necessary to see through and let go of our unconscious defence mechanisms such as projection before we've managed to pull the rug from under ourselves. Or whether the amount of suffering we'd have to experience in order to become conscious surmounts what we are able to survive as a species. - And, personally, I sometimes think, we've already crossed the Rubicon. We just haven't noticed yet. Another defence mechanism: denial. For instance of the truth that "this too shall pass". Haha! Really good question. I think, we definitely have the potential. The tricky question is whether we, humanity as a whole, can achieve the self-/awareness necessary to see through and let go of our unconscious defence mechanisms such as projection before we’ve managed to pull the rug from under ourselves. Or whether the amount of suffering we’d have to experience in order to become conscious surmounts what we are able to survive as a species. – And, personally, I sometimes think, we’ve already crossed the Rubicon. We just haven’t noticed yet. Another defence mechanism: denial. For instance of the truth that “this too shall pass”.

]]> By: RonUnger http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2009/11/the-role-of-accepting-differences-in-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-1185 RonUnger Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:37:21 +0000 http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/?p=251#comment-1185 Thanks for your comments. I agree with you Marian, especially about the importance of eventually getting to a place where one doesn't feel a victim of one's past, but is back in touch with one's potential as a human being to have a meaningful life despite whatever happened in the past. As far as black and white thinking - well I think that often is a problem for human beings in general when we are emotionally charged about something! But you are right that the mental health system only wants to see this thinking in its clients, and refuses to notice when it engages in such thinking itself. Enemies to allies is a much broader topic - can we eventually figure out how to do this with external enemies as well? Thanks for your comments. I agree with you Marian, especially about the importance of eventually getting to a place where one doesn’t feel a victim of one’s past, but is back in touch with one’s potential as a human being to have a meaningful life despite whatever happened in the past.

As far as black and white thinking – well I think that often is a problem for human beings in general when we are emotionally charged about something! But you are right that the mental health system only wants to see this thinking in its clients, and refuses to notice when it engages in such thinking itself.

Enemies to allies is a much broader topic – can we eventually figure out how to do this with external enemies as well?

]]> By: Marian http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2009/11/the-role-of-accepting-differences-in-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-1182 Marian Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:24:47 +0000 http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/?p=251#comment-1182 "Alice's" approach to hearing voices seems to me to be the same as the mh system's, namely that it is a symptom of an illness, a bad (mad) thing that needs to be fought/overcome, a disadvantage only, with the voice hearer being nothing but the victim of this "illness" (or of the past abuser so often represented by the voices). A lot of people probably see it that way, although I suspect, that most of them don't do so before they get in touch with the mh system. Hearing voices can be extremely distressing, but at the same time I for one never once doubted that there was meaning and value to the voices. In the meantime, accepting the voices and exploring their meaning confirmed my initial suspicion, that they were valuable messages from my unconscious, the key to a greater understanding of myself. So, why would I have wanted to get rid of them, when I could learn how to look at them, and explore their meaning and value from a place where I did no longer identify as their victim? Actually, this is what recovery means to me, to arrive at a place where one can let go of the drama, of being the victim of one's past, and move on to grow. Hearing voices is just a different, extreme, way of thinking thoughts. Thinking thoughts, in an extreme way or not, is just a "symptom" of being human, not of any "illness". Problematic it only becomes when a person is identified with her thoughts. But then it becomes problematic disregarded whether the way of thinking thoughts is extreme or not. "Alice's" approach to me also seems to be the logic consequence of our civilization's very dualistic way of categorizing things into strictly "good", healthy, desirable, and strictly "bad", sick, undesirable. - Apropos of black and white thinking. Another example where, as I see it, the mh system projects one of its own characteristics into its clientele. - Or into suffering and happiness. The dualistic mindset pursues happiness as the ultimate fulfilment, and fights suffering, not realizing that both are two sides of the same thing, that there can't be happiness without suffering, and vice versa. In order to truly overcome suffering, one would have to overcome happiness too: enlightenment. And no one has yet truly overcome something by turning it into an enemy who needs to be fought. To my conviction, true recovery presupposes acceptance, presupposes a view of "symptoms" not as the enemy, but indeed as allies. And when I've reached a point where I experience "symptoms" as allies rather than as my enemies, there may actually be no longer any need for me to eliminate them. I may even want to hold on to my allies. “Alice’s” approach to hearing voices seems to me to be the same as the mh system’s, namely that it is a symptom of an illness, a bad (mad) thing that needs to be fought/overcome, a disadvantage only, with the voice hearer being nothing but the victim of this “illness” (or of the past abuser so often represented by the voices). A lot of people probably see it that way, although I suspect, that most of them don’t do so before they get in touch with the mh system. Hearing voices can be extremely distressing, but at the same time I for one never once doubted that there was meaning and value to the voices. In the meantime, accepting the voices and exploring their meaning confirmed my initial suspicion, that they were valuable messages from my unconscious, the key to a greater understanding of myself. So, why would I have wanted to get rid of them, when I could learn how to look at them, and explore their meaning and value from a place where I did no longer identify as their victim? Actually, this is what recovery means to me, to arrive at a place where one can let go of the drama, of being the victim of one’s past, and move on to grow.

Hearing voices is just a different, extreme, way of thinking thoughts. Thinking thoughts, in an extreme way or not, is just a “symptom” of being human, not of any “illness”. Problematic it only becomes when a person is identified with her thoughts. But then it becomes problematic disregarded whether the way of thinking thoughts is extreme or not.

“Alice’s” approach to me also seems to be the logic consequence of our civilization’s very dualistic way of categorizing things into strictly “good”, healthy, desirable, and strictly “bad”, sick, undesirable. – Apropos of black and white thinking. Another example where, as I see it, the mh system projects one of its own characteristics into its clientele. – Or into suffering and happiness. The dualistic mindset pursues happiness as the ultimate fulfilment, and fights suffering, not realizing that both are two sides of the same thing, that there can’t be happiness without suffering, and vice versa. In order to truly overcome suffering, one would have to overcome happiness too: enlightenment. And no one has yet truly overcome something by turning it into an enemy who needs to be fought.

To my conviction, true recovery presupposes acceptance, presupposes a view of “symptoms” not as the enemy, but indeed as allies. And when I’ve reached a point where I experience “symptoms” as allies rather than as my enemies, there may actually be no longer any need for me to eliminate them. I may even want to hold on to my allies.

]]> By: Rossa http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/2009/11/the-role-of-accepting-differences-in-recovery/comment-page-1/#comment-1181 Rossa Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:44:07 +0000 http://recoveryfromschizophrenia.org/?p=251#comment-1181 Thanks, interestingly put. Dr. Abram Hoffer, has four criteria for recovery, one of which was being free of signs and symptoms. The other three, as you know, are getting along well with friends and family, getting on well in the community, and paying income tax. Dr Hoffer, who died within the last year at age 90, was of an age where the hearing voices movement was only just beginning to evaluate voice hearing in a more positive light. I have tended to rely on Dr. Hoffer's criteria, but am tailoring my opinion more and more to thinking that meeting three out of four benchmarks ain't bad. The Bible is big on voice hearers and yet still refers to madmen, so even back then there must have been some recognition that it's what you make of the voices that counts. Thanks, interestingly put. Dr. Abram Hoffer, has four criteria for recovery, one of which was being free of signs and symptoms. The other three, as you know, are getting along well with friends and family, getting on well in the community, and paying income tax. Dr Hoffer, who died within the last year at age 90, was of an age where the hearing voices movement was only just beginning to evaluate voice hearing in a more positive light. I have tended to rely on Dr. Hoffer’s criteria, but am tailoring my opinion more and more to thinking that meeting three out of four benchmarks ain’t bad. The Bible is big on voice hearers and yet still refers to madmen, so even back then there must have been some recognition that it’s what you make of the voices that counts.

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